Assalamu alaykum


The following is a translation of most of the interview with the son of Shaikh Abdullah Azzam rahimahu Allah, Hudhaifah Abdullah Azzam.
I watched it over 2 years ago (2005), and found it online, so I translated the parts related to the shaikh rahimahu Allah with Zawahir and Bin Laden.


The Arabic text can be found here:


In Arabic: http://www.alarabiya.net/Articles/2005/07/28/15351.htm
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Note: I posted this before in another thread a few months ago, but it was missing a few parts and it was disorganized, so I completed the missing parts and organized it better.


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The shaikh's relationship with Usama bin Laden


Hudaifah Abdullah Azzam: he met Ibn Laden then after the year 1984, he was in Saudi Arabia then, here in Amman.


Interviewer: and he was one of his students?


Hudaifah: the shaikh Ibn Laden was in King Abdul Aziz University, he was studying and he heard that there is shaikh (called) Abdullah Azzam and my father, at that time, was doing a media role in the Islamic world for the Afghani cause, and he was traveling around between Saudi Arabia and Gulf countries and countries of the Islamic world and in Jordan, but, before he did any work, he would always get an official permission so there won't be any conflict between him and the qawm (I guess he means the governmetns by that?) that is why in the years 1982 , 1983 and 1984, when he came to Jordan, he got an official permission in the country to collect donations for the Afghani jihad and this is confirmed and known.


[here the interviewer asking about bombings in differnet places, which leads to another topic different than OBL]




Some Arab Afghanis standing against Azzam


Hudhaifah Abdullah Azzam: In Pakistan, and we met Egyptian investigation officers whom I know their faces, if I saw them now I would know them, we were arrested at the request of the Egyptian regime.
Not me or any of my family can enter Egypt until this moment, because I know if I entered Egypt, I would be arrested at the airport, however, this is a word of truth, I have no interest or benefit with the Egyptian regime, but I want to say a word of truth even though I know that both parties will not be pleased with us, in brief but this word we say for the sake of Allah, then to history, I say: those Egyptians in Peshawer used to stand against the father (Abdullah Azzam) when he was in the Masjid, the ones who hold this ideology, starting from shaikh Abi al Fadl, if he is alive I ask Allah azza wa jal to guide him and to return him to the right course, and if has passed away, I ask Allah to have mercy on him, no....and he shaikh Ayman zawahiri in peshawer, they issued a statement on Abdullah Azzam while he is alive, they accused him of being infiltrated by U.S. intelligence, they accused him of stealing money, this statement I have told you: I still keep copies from this statement, I still have it until today, they would not pray behind Abdullah Azzam, they divided the Arabs into two Arabs, Abdullah Azzam used to pray in Masjid "Sabe' al Layl" and they went and made for themselves a Jum'ah, Jum'ah prayer in Masjid al Hilal al Ahmar al Kuwaiti in Peshawer, I swear by Allah that my father gave a whole khutba, more than an hour and a half and he is speaking to them, a whole jum'ah khutbah: "Fear Allah", I said: so we won't make the Arabs two Arabs we pray in one place, and my father used to go to prayer in their place, and they are in the age of his youngest sons, or at least at the age of his sons, and they are in knowledge uncompared ? to him, they know that they would not bet not in his knowledge nor his evidance/argument nor anything, but even with that, he would sit humbly to teach them how a Muslim's heart should be on the Muslim? he sits to listen to the khutbah of a person who does not speak well, and he knows who he is, he is the first Arab to come to the field.
Sa'ed al Silawi (interviewer): and Ayman Zawahiri was with them?
Hudhaifah Azzam: yes, they were present, all of them were present and one of them was doing the khutbah, the father (Abdullah Azzam) -may Allah have mercy on him- used to be cursed on the minbar (where the khutbah is given), abused at the minbar, and speaks about the minbar, those whom were not pleased with Abdullah Azzam during his life, we know with certainty (with no doubt), now they came after his death to market their ideology in the name of Abdullah Azzam, and they used to not acknowledge him, if they had any faithfulness/loyalty or less loyalty to Abdullah Azzam, they would have read his ideology and his way/path/approach, Abdullah Azzam who stood up in ...they stood with him in a long bitter conflict/fight in the field of Peshawer, and in the camps, everytime he would say a word, they stood up to him, and objected to him without the slightest evidence or the slightest proof.
Those, now, started to take the name of Abdullah Azzam as a ceiling, or a bright name/name of fame , they know that the Muslim world...that Abdullah Azzam is the only person who got an ijma' in the Pakistinian and Afghani field, and the only person, who never harmed, not with even a word, even the Saudi Interior Minister in one of his meetings, I think with MBC, I heard him with my ears, when he was asked about Abdullah Azzam, he said: a person who calls to virtue/goodness.
Abdullah Azzam imposed/forced his respect in the public and private, he imposed his respect upon the regimes and people, that is why they said: which person now to market these goods, who is the most famous standing name? the name of Abdullah Azzam, they marketed those goods, I swear by Allah if Abdullah Azzam was alive, he would be the first to fight this ideology, and he would have been the most standing person to appose/ stand up against this ideology, and he would have been the first to stand up against their faces, because he stood up against them in Peshawer.


"They used to ask his permission to kill the foreigners in Peshawer (I believe I misspelled it) in Afghanistan, and he (Abdullah Azzam) used to say to them: it is not permissable.
Now I show you a discussion in these books, more than 20 pages, between him (Abdullah) and them, and he tells them: it is not allowed, because they got visas from Pakistan, and the country (pakistan) gave them aman , so it is not permissible to touch one hair from their body, they said:
ok inside Afghanistan, they are missionaries, they cause fitnah amongest Afghanis, they remove the wombs of women in hospitals so they won't give birth, they ... " and they didn't leave a single evidence .... and he (Abdullah) told them:
"if the smallest or youngest Afghani gave aman to a Frenchman, or a British, or an American to enter Afghanistan with everything you have mentioned even if they entered for missionary work, even if they entered for fasad, if he entered to distribute medicines who nude women on it (like they mentioned), even if they did what they did, if one Afghani gave them aman, then you can't touch a hair from his body.


inteviewer: you dont' kill him?
Hudaifah: you don't touch a hair from his body let alone kill him, you can't even harm him with words, because he has aman, and this is found in our shari'ah (المسلمون يقوم بهم أدناهم.. someone translate this please), in the shari'ah the lowest of the Muslims has the right to give aman (safety) to another man, the Quran says this clearly [9:6 And if anyone of the Mushrikûn seeks your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allâh (the Qur'ân), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not.] what does "then escort him to where he can be secure" mean? it is of the meaning "don't leave him", protect him, his blood and life until he reaches a place where he can be secure.


Interviewer:.....
Hudhaifah: I swear by Allah, in my life I speak the word of truth, this ideology was not in agreement with the ideology of Abdullah Azzam.
Sh. Usama bin Laden, what separated between him and sh. Abdullah is them (zawahiri and his clan), they surrounded him and convenced him to create al Qaeda, and sh. Usama left the office of services because of their pressure.
Interviewer: In your opinion, this ideology that kills now, how does one confront it? What is the role of the scholars of the Muslims? Where are they?


Extremism and Negligence in the Issue of Jihad


Hudhaifah Abdullah Azzam: The problem in the scholars of the Muslims, and I don't mean to speak bad about them, they are above our heads, we respect them and it is not allowed for us to attack them just because they took a differnet opinion than us, but the issue is that we should point that the ummah has divided into 2 groups in regards to the scholars.
A group who wanted to wipe out jihad from the shari'ah a complete wipe out, so they lost their credibility amongest those youth and the general people, and another group who is extreme in this issue, to the point of going against Allah's rules, in the name of Allah's religion, this is a main problem, for at this time that we hear of Ulama who forbid fighting with the Americans in Iraq and gives legitimacy to the Iraqi government that the occupation came with, we find on the other side another group whether inside Iraq or Saudi Arabia, or Egypt or another country who wants to root out\ eradicate everything, and those in reality , a group of them slipped, I mean the other group, until they reached the point of takfeer,
before 6 months, I swear by Allah O brothers, that I said before 6 months, I was in a long bitter debate and discussion with some of who believe in this ideology, I told them that from the reports that came out from them, I told them the group has slipped into takfir, they said: "Fear Allah! you are accusing them unjustly/wrongly there is difference between them and takfeer. I said: "They have slipped into takfir" and they weren't convinced.
5 or 6 months passed, and the killing of the Egyptian embassador happened, then an announcement came out, clear declaration was in the report that came out after the killing of the Egyptian embassador to Iraq, because the group fell into takfeer, when they said that Allah's command has been executed upon him, ridah (apostasy), and apostasy means that they have taken him out of the religion of Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, so they killed him. They didnt' kill him because he was ... against the policy of jihad, they killed him ridah (apostasy), then they spoke honestly that this man follows the Egyptian government, the kafir apostate regime, that is why that embassador is part of that regime, and that is why Allah's law was excuted on him ridah (my words- same as the ideology of ones who bomb in KSA-).
I said to them: here, this is their announcement, this is their report, if I have accused them unjustly or wrongly, then say I am mistaken.
Interviewer: what was their reply?
Hudhaifah: They were silent ..


Interviewer: Now you spoke about the issue of jihad, in reality what is happening in Iraq is not aimed at the Americans, there are fatwas, you speak to one of them, you say to them: Brother, you bomb around a children's school, and blow up yourself, commit suicide; he says: we pray for Jannah for them; these fatwas, does it have any connection to the ideology of Sh. Abdullah Azzam? I want to concentrate on the ideology of sh. Abdullah Azzam, do these fatwas have any relationship with his ideology? Meaning: kill even if they were children, even if they were women, and make duaa for Jannah for them?




The Sanctity Of Blood in Islam
Hudhaifah Abdullah Azzam: You mentioned the meaning, and I mention to you the text that they relied on, they say: "They will be resurrected and judged according to their intentions"; They say: " They will be resurrected and judged according to their intentions", of course they left the thousands of hadiths that forbid killing, and ayat that forbid the killing of the self that Allah forbid except with its right.
The hadiths: "A faithful believer remains at liberty regarding his religion unless he kills somebody unlawfully.", "The Angels invoke curse upon one of you if he points a weapon at his brother" …Abdullah bin Mas'ud looks at the ka'bah then says: "O how great is your sacredness, but the sacredness of the blood of the believer is greater in the sight of Allah". In the hadith: "For the Ka'bah to be destroyed is easier in the sight of Allah than the spilling the blood of a Muslim", they left all of these hadiths, then they come to one hadith; and let me mention the hadith to you in full, the hadith says (the Messenger of Allah) sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, from what Aisha –radiyallahu anha- narrates:
"An army will invade the Ka'ba and when the invaders reach Al-Baida', all the ground will sink and swallow the whole army." I said, "O Messenger of Allah! How will they sink into the ground while amongst them will be their markets (the people who worked in business and not invaders) and the people not belonging to them?" The Prophet replied, "All of those people will sink but they will be resurrected and judged according to their intentions".
Of course this hadith is speaking about a sign from the signs of day of judgement. A sign from the signs of the day of judgement that is coming, an army will invade the Ka'bah, and Allah Azza wa Jal will destroy them in the way in the desert, before they reach the Ka'bah, the sinking is from Allah, not the slave.
O brother ! Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala is not questioned for what He does, and they are questioned, it is not for you to appoint yourself to say: "O they will be resurrected and judged by their intentions"; Where are you from the hadith of the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam: "The one killed will come on the day of judgement in the same condition he was the day he was killed, his wounds bleeding, holding the hand of the his killer, then he says: 'O my Lord, ask my killer why he killed me?'"… a thousand, two thousand, five thousand, ten thousand; Brother! where will you go from Allah Azza wa Jal? these lives; Then another one tells you: this man made ijtihad and was mistaken.
I said: Ijtihad is for a man to make ijtihad, then makes a mistake in fiqhi matters, there he has a chance, and able to retract, but to make ijtihad in matter of lives, then you kill a thousand, two thousand , ten thousand and fifteen thousand, then those on the day of judgment will not allow you or none of them will forgive you, where will you go from Allah Azza wa Jal?
..the problem is that those youth, most of them... I want to tell you an important point, that most of those youth arrived at the at Pakistan and Afghanistan after the jihad ended; we in Pakistand and in Afghanistan in the camps, we used to carry the ideology then we carry the weapon, I will mention to you something quick and simple, and the issue is important:
I am one of the people who was trained, I trained on using explosives. The explosives course began, and our trainer was called "Dhul Qarnain", and my father was with us in this course.
Interviewer: In Afghanistan?
Hudhaifah: In Afghanistan, in the camp "Sada", and we were free at that time, we own the freedom to do what we want; I swear by Allah O sayd Sa'ed (the interviewer), that the mushaf was at the door of the training room, and every participant in this course has to put his hands on the book of Allah Azza wa Jal, on the mushaf, then swears by Allah, for him to be able to participate in the course, not to use this techonology against the Muslim, or in any Arab or Muslim country, why the oath?
I entered at the time and I was young, I was 18 years old, I said: "I am the son of the Shaykh of the mujahideen, it is not necessary that I take an oath. My father (Abdullah Azzam) said to me: Take an oath; I said: I won't take an oath; He said: then you are to be forbidden from taking the course, you won't participate in the course, put both your hands on the book of Allah and take an oath that you will not use this jihadi technology…
Interviewer: To this point he was caring\careful\cautious for the lives of the Muslims?
Hudhaifah: Yes, he was very careful\cautious , and they know that with certainty, they know in their hearts, many of them are still alive and they know. I swear by Allah that I am not speaking out of desire, and I do not say except what I saw, lived and heard..


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Interviewer: If you allow me shaikh Hudhaifah to go back a little, do you remember when shaikh Abdullah Azzam met Usamah bin Laden? And how was the relationship that connected them?






The story of Azzam and Ibn Laden in Afghnistan


Hudaifah: yes, I say sh. Abdullah Azzam met sh. bin Laden in year 1984, and my father came to Jordan after that, and the agreement between him and sh. Usama bin Laden is for my father to return in next summer to do Hajj, and hajj at that time was in the summer, and Usama bin Laden decided to go with him to Pakistan then to Afghanistan to join in the Afghani jihad, so my father said to him: I will come back to preform the obligatory hajj, then if you have completed organizing your matters, we go together, or else I will go before you and you come later, and it was the latter.
My father went before him then bin Laden came to Afghanistan and Pakistan and sh. bin Laden, at that time, was the main stone in the services office (of the mujahideen), he is the one who financed it, he is the one who paid the salaries of its workers, he is the one who headed most of the services that the office did, with his personal money. He was a financial element, he was a jihad element.
Interviewer: and the father rahimahu Allah was the ideology and the education.
Hudhaifah: My father was the one who held the ideology, he was the guide, and that was real, I heard the it from the ones who work for the organizations in these days, they said: Abdullah Azzam was like a safety valve, and we wish he didn't leave.


Interviewer: I want to stop a little about what you said when you took the bombing course, he used to put his hand, meaning to not use it against any Muslim or in a Muslim or Arab country, and from those who you remember, did they go against that later, did they stick to that, or did they ... ?
Hudhaifah: no, there are the brothers who I know, they were with us in the course, and I don't think any of them joined in any opperation...
Interviewer: every person who took this course did the same thing?
Hudhaifah: he (the person taking the courses) used to swear on Allah's book, yes, but don't forget that the Qaeda later created its own special camps, and separated from the services office, created its own camp as Sideeq and al Faruq, and removed its young men to there.
Interviewer: and they used to make the youth swear at that time in the Qaeda orginizations and its camps?
Hudhaifah: I don't think so, because the ones who were heading the camps were from the extreme Egyptian brothers.
It was brother Abu Hafs – rahimahu Allah-, it was brother Abu Ubaidah rahimahu Allah..


Interviewer: Ayman Zawahiri.
Hudhaifah Abdullah Azzam: Ayman Zawahiri, those in reality, even though we love them for sake of Allah, but in reality we differ from them completely in ideology and method. They are the ones who put up enmity against us, and they transformed the war from an ideological war to a war in the hearts; which, at the end, called lead them to holding up arms and making halal the blood of the mujahideen in Afghanistan.
And for that I will give a simple example, who killed the shaikh Ahmad Shah Mas'ud – rahimahu Allah-?
And he is a partner leader, my father said in the book he authored. My father authored a whole book about him, and my father lived with him more than 2 months in one room, in traveling and residing, and knew him up close; my father said about him: The hope of the Muslim ummah, not in Afghanisatan alone, but the world.
Shaikh Ahmad Shah Mas'ud, they made his blood halal, them, they made his blood halal.


Interviewer: They killed him.
Hudhaifah Abdullah Azzam: They killed him, yes.


Interviewer: Two days before the incident of Sept. 11.
Hudhaifah Azzam: They killed him, yes they are the ones who killed him, and they confessed to that, they are the ones who killed him, why do you kill a mujahid? Why do you kill a Muslim? Because he disagreed with you in ideology, because he differed with you in methodology.


Interviewer: This takes us back to November 1989, the time of the assassination of your father Dr. Abdullah Azzam, you laid a lot of questions, since Ahmad Shah Mas'ud was killed by them, do you have some doubts that Dr. Abdullah Azzam might have been killed as a result of his ideology, also on the hands of the likes of those ? who assassinated Dr. Abdullah Azzam.
Hudhaifah Abdullah Azzam: I say to you with certainty that it is not them, with certainty, for a simple reason I mentioned… shaikh Usamah bin Laden in 1988 left the field (of jihad) to join in the janazah of his older brother, Salem bin Laden, who died in an airplane accident, his private airplane.


Interviewer: In the United States.
Hudhaifah: .. he was returning, on the way the airplane fell with him, then sh.Usamah bin Laden returned in 1988 to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and my father advised him, at that time, to stay in the field, but he said: My brother and I can't, I have to go to participate (in the janazah)…
My father was killed in Nov. 24 1989, sh. Usamah was not in the field …